Oppo's choice: Toyobaru 86BRZ vs 2015+ Mustang (Updated)

"AC2 - The Now 15 Year Old Jalop" (ac-2-shoes)
01/18/2018 at 03:00 • Filed to: None

Here I am again, dwelling on what my first car is going to be when the time comes. The good thing is though, that I’ve narrowed it down to two cars: The S550 Ecoboost/GT Mustang or any year/model of the Toyobaru triplets. Because I am the most indecisive person I know (Am I?), I’m leaving the choice to Oppo:

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(Update: Don’t worry about price. And as for ability to handle power from a first car, technically it wouldn’t be my first actual car, that would be my dad’s 2008 Honda Civic. I count it as a first car because the Civic would be more of a handmedown than a first car.)

DISCUSSION (65)

themanwithsauce - has as many vehicles as job titles > AC2 - The Now 15 Year Old Jalop
01/17/2018 at 03:16

Take the third option - get an old RSX or get an older mustang if you insist on RWD. Your first car is a mulligan - a freebie to be stupid on. Better to trash something already well used than risk wrecking something you really want to love. Buy an older car, bash on it for a bit, and even if you have the money you should still drive this old car for a year or two so you appreciate a new car.

I just had this discussion on Focus ST boards - people with well off families get then for their kids as a first car (moreso in UK than here) or even if they can afford it on their own, they don’t know what a slow car is. So they mod and mod and boost and boost and chase invisible dragons until they either wreck or blow up their car and then bitch that it wasn’t that fast. But without a few years of other reference points, how do you know the true nature of a car?

4kc > themanwithsauce - has as many vehicles as job titles
01/17/2018 at 03:37

I think even something like a 90's Corolla is a good start.

I remember daydreaming about all the cars I might get as my first, and I ended up with a 94 Windstar for pennies. It was way faster than I needed it to be, so I always drove it faster than I should have, but it taught me what driving at the limit was. (Plus I made lots of friends because I could give everyone a ride)

I’ve driven STI’s and 350z’s and Mustangs and a CTS-V, and while they were all fun and very fast, taking them to any sort of limit puts you in a situation where you’re going to lose your license and maybe kill someone. I understand that 99% of the time you might drive safely, but that 1% when you’re mad or the one time you show off, the bad thing will be much worse.

If you’ve already learned what might happen in a slow car, then you’re much more prepared for that same sometimes in a fast car.

duurtlang > themanwithsauce - has as many vehicles as job titles
01/17/2018 at 04:11

Agreed. In my opinion a first car should be cheap, small (but not tiny) with good visibility and communicative handling. Communicative, as in communicating to you when you’re nearing its limits. Not much power. Also: manual transmission, at least in Europe. It’s the best type of car to learn how to drive in. If you want something nicer, upgrade to something else a few years later.

pip bip - choose Corrour > AC2 - The Now 15 Year Old Jalop
01/17/2018 at 04:17

BRZ - reason is simple, not a Mustang

TheD0k_2many toys 2little time > AC2 - The Now 15 Year Old Jalop
01/17/2018 at 04:23

no twitter but mustang all day. More power, looks better, handles well, more parts than you could ever dream of to do anything you want with it.

random001 > AC2 - The Now 15 Year Old Jalop
01/17/2018 at 06:47

Yeah....neither of these are good choices...

SilentButNotReallyDeadly...killed by G/O Media > AC2 - The Now 15 Year Old Jalop
01/17/2018 at 06:49

I applaud and celebrate your expectations.

However, voting on such poor choices for a first car would be pandering to those expectations and I can’t ethically do that...

vondon302 > AC2 - The Now 15 Year Old Jalop
01/17/2018 at 07:09

First car you say.

Kinja'd!!!

Cheap tough and plentiful. Can still be alot of fun too if you don’t mind the stigma of driving a pos cop car.

shop-teacher > AC2 - The Now 15 Year Old Jalop
01/17/2018 at 07:15

These are not good first cars. The Mustang is too powerful for a first car. Either one will cause the insurance man to break it off in you for coverage.

Aaron M - MasoFiST > AC2 - The Now 15 Year Old Jalop
01/17/2018 at 08:15

Miata. Tell your parents “no back seat, no shenanigans!” and then whistle innocently.

themanwithsauce - has as many vehicles as job titles > 4kc
01/17/2018 at 08:39

I’m guessing he/his family have some degree of cash to buy a car with. So we don’t need to go down to “full sketch”. And the RSX is pretty nice, same with cars like an old SE-R, Civic Si, or a golf GTI or something from 10-15 years ago. So he won’t get the full experience like I did of fixing your 700$ car in a parking lot in a rainstorm at midnight but no one would miss a MkIV golf if he hydroplanes into a ditch or grenades a VW group 1.8 turbo.

Nibby > AC2 - The Now 15 Year Old Jalop
01/17/2018 at 08:48

2013 called, it wants its Jalopnik memes back

Nibby > AC2 - The Now 15 Year Old Jalop
01/17/2018 at 08:49

a used 1999 hyundai sonata

2Fast2Furious: Rotary Powered > AC2 - The Now 15 Year Old Jalop
01/17/2018 at 08:50

What’s your budget anyway?

Because these cars have little depreciation compared to most “regular” cars and your only talking about 3 years away

These cars won’t be 15k or less by then

2Fast2Furious: Rotary Powered > Nibby
01/17/2018 at 08:52

Something that is less than 3000 USD and relatively safe is all you need fir a first car

CB > AC2 - The Now 15 Year Old Jalop
01/17/2018 at 08:56

Scion tC.

Jarrett - [BRZ Boi] > AC2 - The Now 15 Year Old Jalop
01/17/2018 at 08:58

A 2013 brz will be 8 years old by 2021. That would be my choice.

Jayhawk Jake > AC2 - The Now 15 Year Old Jalop
01/17/2018 at 08:58

First car? The BRZ is a much more reasonable option. You are not ready for 400+ horsepower out of a GT, and even the 300+ out of an ecoboost is probably too much.

My advice to kids looking at first car options is always to get something affordable even if there is budget for more. If your parents are offering you $25k to get a car, tell them to use $15k of it to get a safe, but still reasonably fun, lightly used car. Then have the other $10k plopped into an investment account of some kind. Maybe a buy some 5 or 10 year bonds or similar. You get a car, and then when you’ve finished your education and sprung out into the real world you’ll have a healthy cushion that will allow you to take professional and personal risks you otherwise couldn’t afford.

Jayhawk Jake > 2Fast2Furious: Rotary Powered
01/17/2018 at 09:00

If his tag is accurate and he’s 13, they’ll be there for sure. Toyobaru’s are already close, and Ecoboost Mustangs can be found under 20 by now.

HFV has no HFV. But somehow has 2 motorcycles > Jayhawk Jake
01/17/2018 at 09:02

This.

HFV has no HFV. But somehow has 2 motorcycles > Aaron M - MasoFiST
01/17/2018 at 09:03

This is not a bad idea, but get an NC for less than 10 Grand

HFV has no HFV. But somehow has 2 motorcycles > AC2 - The Now 15 Year Old Jalop
01/17/2018 at 09:08

If the choices it’s obvious BRZ. But really unless you have years of experience driving off road on track, get something shitty for your first car. My first car was a 1992 Camry sedan. The most reasonable car you can buy. And I still got two tickets with it, hit a brick wall while “drifting” in a snowy parking lot, put it in s ditch on a backroad, and did over 100mph a few times. And it was all fun.

Point is your first car will get you into trouble, and be a hell of a lot of fun, even if it’s the most mundane, automatic, family sedan on the planet.

Aaron M - MasoFiST > HFV has no HFV. But somehow has 2 motorcycles
01/17/2018 at 09:26

Agree. More refinement, actual roll hoops. If I had the driveway space right now I’d be looking for a PRHT with the suspension package.

bob and john > AC2 - The Now 15 Year Old Jalop
01/17/2018 at 10:15

neither of these are good first cars. if you held a gun to my head and told me to pick on, id say the subaru. but really, $10K car as your first. something FWD and actually slow. learn how to drive and get along with traffic, THEN go to fun fast shit.

TheTurbochargedSquirrel > Aaron M - MasoFiST
01/17/2018 at 11:04

Kinja'd!!!

When I eventually remove my rear seats (I never use them and want to turn them into a couch) I am going to get these and put them on the floor pan where the seats used to be.

TheTurbochargedSquirrel > shop-teacher
01/17/2018 at 11:13

A car with 2 doors driven by a young male is like christmas to an insurance agent. Of the cars I have owned my Mini is the cheapest (worth about $1k less than my old Outback), safest (only car I have owned with traction control, stability control, multi channel ABS, and side airbags), and slowest (down 10hp on my Corolla and down 50 on the Outback) and yet my insurance doubled when I went from the Outback to the Mini.

Nerd-Vol > AC2 - The Now 15 Year Old Jalop
01/17/2018 at 11:25

Go for a GT350. It will teach you a lot.

Failing that a 10-15 year old Corolla.

dannyzabolotny > AC2 - The Now 15 Year Old Jalop
01/17/2018 at 12:00

Ecoboost Mustang for sure. It has a decent bit of power in stock form, and if you want more power, it’s not hard to get more out of it. It’s also a more comfortable car to drive around on a day-to-day basis, and has a more usable back seat if you want to have some friends in the car. Plus unlike the earlier Mustangs, the newer ones have a modern independent rear suspension, so they handle a lot more predictably. Keep the stability control engaged and you’ll be fine.

AC2 - The Now 15 Year Old Jalop > Jayhawk Jake
01/17/2018 at 15:17

Well I would never buy a new car.

I am strongly biased to the 86FRSBRZ because my dad has seen one multiple times and likes the safety and 200HP

AC2 - The Now 15 Year Old Jalop > 2Fast2Furious: Rotary Powered
01/17/2018 at 15:36

The Mustang maybe, but the Toyobaru is depreciating like a

AC2 - The Now 15 Year Old Jalop > vondon302
01/17/2018 at 15:36

Honestly, this could be a third option

AC2 - The Now 15 Year Old Jalop > HFV has no HFV. But somehow has 2 motorcycles
01/17/2018 at 15:38

Well the problem is, technically my first car is a 2008 Honda Civic, but I won’t count that as a real first car because I wasn’t the one who bought it first

AC2 - The Now 15 Year Old Jalop > Nibby
01/17/2018 at 15:38

I don’t understand this

AC2 - The Now 15 Year Old Jalop > Nerd-Vol
01/17/2018 at 15:39

I wouldn’t buy a factory overpowered car. I said ecoboost because I can make it my own way

AC2 - The Now 15 Year Old Jalop > CB
01/17/2018 at 15:40

Oh no...

Jayhawk Jake > AC2 - The Now 15 Year Old Jalop
01/17/2018 at 15:59

That wasn’t really the primary point of my comment...

AC2 - The Now 15 Year Old Jalop > Jayhawk Jake
01/17/2018 at 16:01

As for the accounting part of your comment: I already do this. I have an account open with the USAA bank

HFV has no HFV. But somehow has 2 motorcycles > AC2 - The Now 15 Year Old Jalop
01/17/2018 at 16:27

Oh then yeah get something cool next

AestheticsInMotion > Aaron M - MasoFiST
01/17/2018 at 17:05

While it would make a pretty good first car, those hoops are anything but structural. Style bar only

Aaron M - MasoFiST > AestheticsInMotion
01/17/2018 at 18:16

They are miles above the NA and NB, i.e. your neck and maybe the windshield.

Dogsatemypants > AC2 - The Now 15 Year Old Jalop
01/18/2018 at 03:05

Get a yugo. https://seattle.craigslist.org/est/cto/d/1991-yugo-gv/6453974502.html

Only $600!

Phase 1: buy yugo

Phase 2: ?

Phase 3: Industry!

jimz > AC2 - The Now 15 Year Old Jalop
01/18/2018 at 04:16

This must be a different world. When I was 16 the best we could hope for in a first car was that whatever piece of junk we could afford would run reliably. I paid $150 for my first car in 1993, and with another $150 for a junkyard cylinder head I was on the road.

jimz > themanwithsauce - has as many vehicles as job titles
01/18/2018 at 04:33

Your first car should never be a performance car. I know guys love to live vicariously and recommend kids get the kind of car they themselves would have wanted in high school, but teenage guys are reckless destructive jerks. Give them a high powered car the first time out and it’ll be wrecked (and someone will be bleeding) before too long.

UnderSTeerEnthusiast - Triumph Fanboy > AC2 - The Now 15 Year Old Jalop
01/18/2018 at 06:53

These are both very bad first car ideas. You WILL wreck either one of them and I couldn’t in good faith say either is smart for a first car regardless of how good of a driver you think you would be. You still have three years, I’d wait a bit and think some more.

KusabiSensei - Captain of the Toronto Maple Leafs > AC2 - The Now 15 Year Old Jalop
01/18/2018 at 06:57

EDIT: On second thought, if you are only going to be 16, don’t get either of these cars. You need to do your time in something that doesn’t have a massive insurance bill (make your parents happy) because you WILL crash it. At least once, and hopefully only once (at low speeds).

My first car was a hand me down VW Beetle with the 1.8T. That car was enough of a handful for a 16 year old with the 5 speed manual.

Then when you turn 18...Then get a used Toyobaru. Much easier to learn limit handling behaviour without requiring massive speed.

Then you can look at a Mustang/Camaro (depending on how good your track sense of “where other people are” happens to be).

HondoyotaE38: A Japanese and German Collab...wait a minute > AC2 - The Now 15 Year Old Jalop
01/18/2018 at 07:01

Please. Mustang the typical rich kid high school crowd running car or the easily modded BRZ? None. I’m 14 going on 15 and can relate to your want for a cool car but this ain’t the way to go. Want some real merit? Do what I’m doing or something or something similar: I’m 2JZ-GTE swapping a Mk3 Supra. I’ll have the Supra just to drive around with it’s shitty 7M-GE and manual gearbox until I get a bit older with more money. Then I can make a car that’ll take a Mustang and BRZs ass in a second.

aquila121 > AC2 - The Now 15 Year Old Jalop
01/18/2018 at 07:29

Have you even considered the insurance rates on either of these choices (as you’ll be a relatively new driver)? I’m about twenty years older than you with a decent record, and it still makes my heart sink to consider the rates for these...

Spanfeller is a twat > AC2 - The Now 15 Year Old Jalop
01/18/2018 at 08:19

Oh man! Get the toyota!

Jarrett - [BRZ Boi] > shop-teacher
01/18/2018 at 08:20

It’s funny you mention that. My 2.0L Gen 2 Mazda 3 costs more to insure than my 1.8L Gen 2.5 Miata with only 2 airbags, and literally zero rollover protection. It’s like $40/month more, too - it’s not trivial!

Ash78, voting early and often > AC2 - The Now 15 Year Old Jalop
01/18/2018 at 08:21

When I was in my teens, it was all about this:

Toyota Supra Turbo

Mazda RX-7

Mitsibushi 3000GT VR4

Final answer: 1988 Dodge Caravan for a while until I could prove I could drive. Then a brand new 115hp VW Golf. Real life got in the way, namely the cost and danger of owning my dream cars as a new driver.

I’m still here alive today - and not flat broke — because of the choices I ended up with.

GO with Used, FWD, sub-200hp. Two years without a speeding ticket or crash, then buy whatever you want :P

marshknute > AC2 - The Now 15 Year Old Jalop
01/18/2018 at 08:27

No Twitter, but Mustang all the way.

The BRZ is awful unless you’re at 10/10ths. It’s truly a 90's ricer released 20 years too late: anemic engine, zero torque, buzzy exhaust note, abysmal interior, and the highest clutch bite point of any car I’ve ever driven (feels like a stair stepper machine).

The Mustang may be fat and nowhere near as nimble, but it’s plenty powerful, comfy, and has a very high-quality interior.

Chuckles > jimz
01/18/2018 at 08:30

When I was 16 I was just thrilled to get to share the family minivan with my sister. And then when I bought a $500 Honda that was 13 years old, I was in heaven.

Tom Tarobat > AC2 - The Now 15 Year Old Jalop
01/18/2018 at 08:45

Mustangs are for Moms

Kia Stinger is baddass

Tom Tarobat > AC2 - The Now 15 Year Old Jalop
01/18/2018 at 08:47

You can do nothing with plastic junk mustangs.

Landfill in 10 years. Junk

Future next gen S2000 owner > AC2 - The Now 15 Year Old Jalop
01/18/2018 at 09:16

Mustang GT or I’ll find you and slap you with a fish.*

*I actually went through this exact decision. Slow car fast or power for days. The twins will wrap around you, they feel small and drive smaller. The Mustang doesn’t but will plant in into the seat.

Shift24 > AC2 - The Now 15 Year Old Jalop
01/18/2018 at 09:17

1LE V6 camaro. Not sure why people forget about it but damn good car with a reasonable price tag.

Kinja'd!!!

WRXforScience > AC2 - The Now 15 Year Old Jalop
01/18/2018 at 09:33

Get the Twin! You can find early model twins for $11-$14k with reasonable miles. The twins are also more practical since the seats fold down, and their lightweight and excellent chassis make it one of the best cars to learn with.

If you are only into boring stuff and like automatics, the Boostang is better at being a boring car (commute only, stop and go traffic, or an autotragic transmission).

shop-teacher > Jarrett - [BRZ Boi]
01/18/2018 at 09:34

That’s crazy!

On the opposite end of the spectrum. When I was 19 I got rid of my ‘89 Oldsmobile Toronado Trofeo, and got a then two year old ‘98 S-10. The S-10 was more powerful, faster, rwd, worth a lot more, and yet it cost $1100 a year LESS to insure.

SmugAardvark > AC2 - The Now 15 Year Old Jalop
01/18/2018 at 10:37

16 year old me would have been happy with either of those.

However, 16 year old me probably wouldn’t have deserved either of these.

If you are interested in autocross, motorsports, or just enthusiastic driving, you can become a better driver more quickly by following the old adage of driving a slow car quickly. That doesn’t have to mean getting a 1992 Cavalier. But getting something a little less high-strung right off the bat can teach you a lot about driving dynamics. Then a couple years later, you can take what you learned and apply it to a true sports car for a genuinely more fulfilling experience.

If I had to choose though, I’d go 86/BRZ.